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22 dead in Virginia Tech shooting
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Aubstar
The Original Geek


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 412
Location: Stumbling Toward Mediocrity

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we need to STOP banning firearms and rifles and semi-automatics and the like. If this guy had walked into a room, and a few of the people in there were carrying their own weapons... The death toll wouldn't have made it into the double digits.

And from what I've read, this guy was obviously a creep. He was known for writing dark and violent and disturbing short stories and scripts (not that THAT is what makes him creepy.) and was sent to therapy multiple times.

His suicide note allegedly blamed his religion and "Rich Kids" for his actions.

As if he weren't the one that took a gun to campus and started shooting everyone up.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 9318

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People on both sides of the gun control debate use incidents like these to fuel their arguments. Control advocates say tougher laws keep them out of the hands of guys like this, and NRA nuts say that everyone in that building should have had a gun and been able to take out this dickhead before he got two shots off.

The problem with gun laws and/or the lack thereof, is that they will never go all the way to one side of caution or the other. The school was designated a "no gun zone" which means that unless you're a cop you can't carry, even with proper permits, etc. Unless people have access to guns like driver's licenses and everyone is allowed or required to carry one for their own defense or the defense of those around them, it would still be too anarchal and we'd revert to a wild west state where people would be shooting each other over arguments and road rage and shit.

There's no real "right way" to police (or not police) the owning, use, purchase, whatever of firearms. As long as they exist and nutjobs are out there, these massacres will never end. The only way to prevent attrocities is to homogenize human nature and turn us until a soulless race, like the one portrayed in movies like Equilibrium.
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Acend
Will date your daughter


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
People on both sides of the gun control debate use incidents like these to fuel their arguments. Control advocates say tougher laws keep them out of the hands of guys like this, and NRA nuts say that everyone in that building should have had a gun and been able to take out this dickhead before he got two shots off.

The problem with gun laws and/or the lack thereof, is that they will never go all the way to one side of caution or the other. The school was designated a "no gun zone" which means that unless you're a cop you can't carry, even with proper permits, etc. Unless people have access to guns like driver's licenses and everyone is allowed or required to carry one for their own defense or the defense of those around them, it would still be too anarchal and we'd revert to a wild west state where people would be shooting each other over arguments and road rage and sh**.

There's no real "right way" to police (or not police) the owning, use, purchase, whatever of firearms. As long as they exist and nutjobs are out there, these massacres will never end. The only way to prevent attrocities is to homogenize human nature and turn us until a soulless race, like the one portrayed in movies like Equilibrium.


These arguements are a moot point as long as we have the second ammendment. We have the right to bear arms regardless of what the government does or says. This, like all of my rights, I am more than willing to kill and die for.
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timrpgland
Founder, Est. 1999


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could care less about our right to bear arms. Damn hillbillies. They can take away my privacy rights but don't take my guns!! NO NOT MY GUNS! MY PENIS SHRINKS WHEN I DON'T HAVE MY GUNS! This guy legally owned the gun. I'd like to see the same thing happen (not literally) with a bow & arrows.
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Cloudcent
20th Century Boy


Joined: 24 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

timrpgland wrote:
I could care less about our right to bear arms. Damn hillbillies. They can take away my privacy rights but don't take my guns!! NO NOT MY GUNS! MY PENIS SHRINKS WHEN I DON'T HAVE MY GUNS! This guy legally owned the gun. I'd like to see the same thing happen (not literally) with a bow & arrows.



Exactly. The amendment was made when people actually had a genuine NEED for guns; to protect themselves from any number of things. We live in a different time now, and it's time to update our constitution to reflect that.
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timrpgland
Founder, Est. 1999


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With that said I do agree that, legal or illegal, crazy people will find a way to get ahold of guns, etc. There is no real solution but I do believe that Americans love guns way too much and these types of sprees happen the most over here.
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Acend
Will date your daughter


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

timrpgland wrote:
I could care less about our right to bear arms. Damn hillbillies. They can take away my privacy rights but don't take my guns!! NO NOT MY GUNS! MY PENIS SHRINKS WHEN I DON'T HAVE MY GUNS! This guy legally owned the gun. I'd like to see the same thing happen (not literally) with a bow & arrows.


Don't touch my privacy either. I hold each and every right with great respect and will protect them vehemently. The first and second ammendments are must probably the most important because without them you couldn't have the rest. Without the freedom to say what you believe and the ability to protect what you say/believe then you don't really have any freedom.

I'll actually go a step further. Nearly no one will agree with me here, but the spirit in which the second ammendment was written was to give the people the right and means to protect themselves from the government. To arm the citizenry so that they could overthrow the government if it should need it. Because of this I feel American's have the constitutional right to own whatever form of weaponry they wish to, including nuclear weapons if they'd like. Do they have the right to use them? I don't believe so, but they do have the right to own them. Again I doubt many if any here will agree with me but I don't particularly care.

One of the best quotes ever: "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"
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timrpgland
Founder, Est. 1999


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but you're also a Texan. Wink
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NR
The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 7614
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! said it best really.
There's no perfect way to manage guns. Like he said, these shooting took place in a "no gun zone." And the overwhelming majority of crimes committed with guns are done with guns that are either illegal because of their make or were illegally obtained.

I do want to be able to own and keep one in my home. In my time, my house (twice in PA and once in Utah) has been broken into 3 different times. One of these happened while (thank Buddha) no one was home (just a bunch of money was stolen). Another, the guy came in, saw my dad with a gun, and bailed the hell out. Another, the guy came in, found me with a sword, and bailed the hell out. I'm not the kind of pussy to sit back and let "the bad guys" be able to come into my fucking house and run my shit. Fuck that.

Everyone likes to conveniently forget Australia's gun ban a few years back, and the fact that since then, crimes along the lines of muggings and break-ins have gone up like 80%.

A guy in the neighboring town here just beat his girlfriend to death with a crowbar. He certainly didn't need a gun to pull that one off, and yet, if he had used one, the anti-gunners would have been all over it. Where are the anti-crowbar folks? I'd rather be shot than crowbarred to death. Daaaamn, dude.

Fun fact: the first thing Stalin did was take guns away from the citizens. I'm noting this one for you, communist Orie.

In the times when we have a white house administration as invasive as the current one, do we really want to give up our guns? When that happens, if our government keeps on the track they're on (Vishnu save us all), then it'll only be a short few years till they're getting more and more invasive, possibly to the point where history repeats itself, and there'll be hardly anything we can do about it.

For effect:
Quote:
As long as they exist and nutjobs are out there, these massacres will never end.

And that's the simplest, truest sentence in this thread. We can talk all millenium long about what should or shouldn't change in gun law, but in the end, people are still going to get shot. Banning or further restricting guns won't stop that.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 9318

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand people like Acend who are all "WAH WAH YOU CAN"T TAKE MY RIGHTS" but then support shit like the Patriot Act, and don't mind intrusive screening at airport checkpoints due to the fear instilled on us by the media and out government. The people who claim they want their firearms to maintain the ability to overthrow their goverment that don't realize how close the goverment is to needing overthrowing...

If the religious right stays in power much longer and the republicans are the only ones with guns, we're gonna be in a fascists state and fucked pretty soon.
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timrpgland
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never owned a gun and don't ever plan on it. If I need a gun to survive then I guess I'll die young.
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Super Megaman X
Call him SMX


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 829
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NR wrote:
LiQuid! said it best really.

Yes, he did. Personally, I'm against gun control, but I'll admit, as long as people can have them, there's going to be shootings. It's a common fact.

NR wrote:
Another, the guy came in, found me with a sword, and bailed the hell out.

Sounds epic.
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Acend
Will date your daughter


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
I don't understand people like Acend who are all "WAH WAH YOU CAN"T TAKE MY RIGHTS" but then support sh** like the Patriot Act, and don't mind intrusive screening at airport checkpoints due to the fear instilled on us by the media and out government. The people who claim they want their firearms to maintain the ability to overthrow their goverment that don't realize how close the goverment is to needing overthrowing...

If the religious right stays in power much longer and the republicans are the only ones with guns, we're gonna be in a fascists state and fijucked pretty soon.


You're assuming I support the patriot act. That piece of legislature is one of the grossest violations of American civil rights ever enacted. Don't assume I believe something I haven't said. When I say I support and will protect to death all of my rights, I mean ALL of my rights. I have not had the chance yet to need to fight for anything taken from me in the patriot act but I will if ever the time comes. This includes on two occasions refusing an officer the opportunity to search my car. I knew I had nothing illegal in there but by god if I didn't make him spend 2 hours getting a search warrant before looking in there. The other cop just decided not to screw with it and let me off with a warning.

I can not for the life of me see how anyone can think that more gun control and "gun free zones" could help prevent a single death, especially in cases like these mass murders. If someone is willing to kill someone, whether through premeditation or in an act of passion, they don't necessarily need a gun to do it. Also, in the case of premeditation if they're already planning on breaking the law to kill someone they're not going to break the law to purchase an illegal firearm? Yeah that makes perfect sense....

If the majority of the citizenry is armed potential muggers/robbers/rapist/(insert violent crime) would be more likely to think twice if there is a better than good chance it'll cost them their life. I believe Tim mentioned the wild west and shoot outs. I'm not saying if everyone was given a gun tomorrow there wouldn't be an "adjustment period" (yeah I know I'm an insensitive prick) but the difference is in the wild west there was no real police force and judiciary system as we have now, it was more often than not mob rule. We have the systems in place to protect from that sort of civil decay. Without guns how can a weaker victim, like a young woman, equally defend herself against an sort of larger male attacker? Guns are an excellent equalizer in this, regardless of my thoughts on government.
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Acend
Will date your daughter


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing, I'm proud to call myself a Texan but I was neither born here nor lived all of my life here. I have lived in 4 other states and 1 other country (Australia). I was in Australia actually about a year after the gun ban went into effect and everyone had to bring all of their firearms to turn in, with the exception of some antiques you needed a permit for. The entire time I was there I meet with only 1 Australian who liked the results of that decision.
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Acend
Will date your daughter


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cloudcent wrote:
timrpgland wrote:
I could care less about our right to bear arms. Damn hillbillies. They can take away my privacy rights but don't take my guns!! NO NOT MY GUNS! MY PENIS SHRINKS WHEN I DON'T HAVE MY GUNS! This guy legally owned the gun. I'd like to see the same thing happen (not literally) with a bow & arrows.



Exactly. The amendment was made when people actually had a genuine NEED for guns; to protect themselves from any number of things. We live in a different time now, and it's time to update our constitution to reflect that.


We may live in a different time but citizens will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS need a means to protect themselves from their own government. The second amendment was the founding father's way of giving the citizens the means to overthrow the new government that they just made should it ever become as oppressive as the one they just spent years fighting in a revolution. (FYI It's worse now than it was then.)
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't talking about you specifically, I was talking about republicans. Though I guess I did assume you'd fall under that blanket category.
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Acend
Will date your daughter


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
I wasn't talking about you specifically, I was talking about republicans. Though I guess I did assume you'd fall under that blanket category.


I'm actually not a republican, although as much as I hate to am soon to change to become a registered Republican...Only because I want to start a career in politics and become a congressman one day soon, but to get elected here you need to be a card toting Republican.


I'm also for the complete and total legalization of any and all drugs for any purpose the user sees fit as long as they do not harm anyone else or their property in the use or under the influence of said drugs. (Basically alcohol laws)
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Strategos
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Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acend wrote:
LiQuid! wrote:
I wasn't talking about you specifically, I was talking about republicans. Though I guess I did assume you'd fall under that blanket category.


I'm actually not a republican, although as much as I hate to am soon to change to become a registered Republican...Only because I want to start a career in politics and become a congressman one day soon, but to get elected here you need to be a card toting Republican.


I'm also for the complete and total legalization of any and all drugs for any purpose the user sees fit as long as they do not harm anyone else or their property in the use or under the influence of said drugs. (Basically alcohol laws)


I'll tell my Uncle to vote for you, Mr. "Republican."
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Acend
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shhh don't tell anyone but I'm currently a registered, card carrying member of the Libertarian party
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Strategos
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, make sure to stick around the forums if you ever actually make it into politics.

That way we can pressure you into making bad decisions for good P.R., and to hell with the reality of issues.
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